Continuing the discussion from [xGov][Beta] xGov Guide 2025:
I’d like to ask if I can vote on xGov (mainnet) without my own node? Is this info is just for testnet or I will need to have a node to participate in mainnet?
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Given the current situation, it is necessary to operate a node. The only exception is if you are delegating through Valar, in which case you should receive voting tickets even if you are not operating a node yourself.
However, those who are delegating likely hold less than 30,000 ALGO. Considering that registering an account to become an xGov voter requires 50 ALGO, it is expected that the majority of people delegating through Valar (excluding CEX addresses) will also not participate.
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You think they won’t participate (I mean people who are delegating through Valar) because they wouldn’t like to pay 50Algo fee?
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At least from what I have observed among Japanese users, I think so. Those who choose the delegation option often have a latent desire to earn node rewards without having to do anything themselves. Of course, there are various reasons why people choose to delegate, but I believe that it is rare for those who choose delegation to pay 50 ALGO to participate in xGov voting, where there are no rewards.
Participation in general governance, which did not require any monetary payment, dropped to about one-tenth once rewards were removed. It is reasonable to estimate that the number of participants in xGov, which does require a monetary payment, will be extremely low.
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I see, that’s good point. I think you’re right. I know that there are only 297 accounts who have nodes, then we will have just ~300 governors on xGov platform and 11 (+2) people as xGov Council?
Maybe it’s good, maybe it’s not. It’s nice to think about that I’m in this small group of people who will have voting power to participate in the future development.
But at the same time it’s not that good for decentralization I guess.
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Weren’t there close to 2,000 accounts running nodes?
Even if there are 2,000, I don’t think many people will actually spend 50 ALGO and their time to participate without rewards, so I expect the number of xGov voters to be quite low.
With so few participants, I think the direction will be heavily influenced by whales regardless of the discussions.
But under these conditions, if you’re participating from the beginning, I think you can confidently call yourself an OG.
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Yeah, we are close to 2k accounts (what Nodely shows), I’ve checked the page with PoP, there are only 300. I misunderstood.
I don’t know what could be named as begining, I think not from the very begining. I’m participating in GP from 8th period (included), I was participating in xGov beta test in 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. Also had experienced with manual node installation. And tried to create calculator as a dApp on testnet. That’s it.
I think many people (who running nodes) will be able to spend 50 Algo, but they definitely won’t spend their time on checking proposals without rewards.
But I think it’s okay because there is xGov Council, but the problem is that there are just 11 of them.
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I have applied to be on the xGov Council, but I believe it is dangerous to view the xGov Council as a safeguard.
This is because the role only has the authority to check whether proposals meet the minimum requirements, and can only reject proposals that fail to meet those minimum conditions—for example, violations of open-source license terms.
The xGov Council can provide reviews on proposals, but based on my experience testing the xGov testnet, there is currently no place where those reviews are displayed. In other words, the xGov Council discusses in the same discussion spaces as regular xGov voters. The Council has no special voting rights regarding proposals. The ones who decide whether grants are given are the xGov voters, and those decisions are heavily influenced by whales among those voters.
The fewer the participants, the fewer the voters, and the more the whales’ opinions prevail. Currently, CEXes and liquid staking providers are in the best position to gather xGov voting power. If, for example, Folks Finance were to submit a proposal to grant funds to itself or to a related project, and were to cast all the xGov votes obtained through xALGO in favor of it, no one would be able to reject it. (How xGov votes obtained through liquid staking are used is entirely up to the liquid staking providers.)
I will do my best to help governance function properly, but it is clear that Algorand’s governance currently has significant issues.
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Agree on 100%! That sounds not good, in simple words.
Am I right, that you have rights (as xGov Council) only to check weather or not proposals meet something like user terms / open source terms / etc?
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Yes, as far as I understand, that is correct. Of course, since I am involved in the review process, I also have a mission to share information and provide explanations about grant proposals submitted for users in my language community (Japanese-speaking users) who may not be able to read English. However, the authority held by the xGov Council is limited to that.
To be honest, there is a lack of clear information from the Foundation regarding what exactly the xGov Council is supposed to do. It’s possible that our authority may be expanded or added to in stages in the future, but based on the currently available public information, that’s all we can say for now.
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one needs the minimum stake on Valar, but not on Reti
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If I stake with Reti pools, then I have my vong power with me?
iiuc xgov voters are voting through their Reti pools. @krby.algo might shed light on how exactly.
the vanilla governance right now to vote in council members excludes reti poolers
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xGov duties and powers are listed on ARC-83, which is part of the application process we shared last month.
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I’ve reviewed the ARC and the guidance again. You’re right — the scope of authority is clearly defined, nothing more and nothing less. My apologies for the oversight.
As for the duties, they remain rather vague. For example, it’s unclear what exactly falls within the scope of the terms of use, how the workload is distributed among the 11 Council members, or what level of accuracy is expected in the reviews and where those reviews are to take place. There’s still a lot we don’t know.
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The AF must not dictate how the council will coordinate and distribute work. The community’s role is to elect the most capable candidates and, once the first council is elected, councilors must meet to define their processes. We will provide support, for example, by creating a specific area for the council in this forum, amplifying discussions, etc. They’ll need agency to decide how to work together.
As for where the reviews will take place, each proposal will have its thread on the forum, and council (and other community members) reviews must be posted on the proposal thread.
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I see, so it’s the xGov Council members themselves who will take the lead in shaping things. I finally understand the responsibilities of this role now. Thank you very much.
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